[illini2319]

It's called wc3banlist (www.banlist.nl/) it's a third party program that basically keeps xml databases on cheaters/leavers/lamers/flamers etc etc for DotA, a custom game on Warcraft III.

As to how this applies to diablo 2, there's a built in utility that will add game names that people on your flist join to the clipboard (ctrl v) and will log all whispers in game as well as what you see in channels (but not in game chat).

I have used this in conjunction with wc3/d2 in the past and was wondering how kosher this practice is.

[DragoonWraith]

Pretty much every game of DotA ever uses that. Several friends that I play DotA with have it, and use it when they host. If I were ever expected to host, I would presumably have to get it (there are a ton of very good reasons not to play without it).

It's definitely not a cheat, and is very convenient.

That said, the rules of these boards are essentially a strict following of Blizzard's rules, and I do not believe that Blizzard sanctions the use of that program, and in fact, if asked, I'm sure they would say that it is, in fact, against the rules. While the program does not do anything malicious, this is purely because the programmers have chosen not to - the techniques they use to determine where your friends are and what whispers are being sent to you/you're sending could easily be used to get other information from, or worse send information to, other players, with malicious intent.

My guess is that it's a no for these boards.

I've long considered the possibility of a program which automatically tracks the items you have on your characters, so you can more easily find muled items, and reference it from outside of the game. Such a program would be excellent, but very likely would neither be allowed by Blizzard nor on these boards.

It's also well beyond my programming abilities, to be sure.

[Tykian Chaotix]

I would be fine with the usage of the program, it gives no advantage whatsoever that I can tell, beyond knowing which games people are in. Saves typing them out. Could be handy for BBaal's.

Someone is bound to get anal about it, but yknow, we also allow the use of obvious in-game glitches, so where do we bother to draw the line?

-goes over to the padded room to draw his line-

[AcidRane]

I'm gonna say no, just to be on the safe side. Add in that Warden might pick it up and ban your CD key for 3PP anyway, and I'd say it's better not to play with fire.

[sambo.]

illini2319, on Sep 11 2008, 09:19 AM, said:

it's a third party program
<snip>
how kosher this practice is.

not kosher in any way shape or form.

anything not approved by/developed by Blizzard falls under the heading of "Hax" and breaches the ToU.

[NeedsMoreGoat]

why is zonfire allowed then?

[illini2319]

sambo., on Sep 14 2008, 10:13 PM, said:

not kosher in any way shape or form.

anything not approved by/developed by Blizzard falls under the heading of "Hax" and breaches the ToU.

DotA is a 'custom game' for WC3 so I guess it wouldn't be supported by Blizzard to begin with. I used to run DotA Client, a third party program which checks for .dlls/scripts/mh's, which was mandated for DotA league play. Ultimately since I don't really "need" to know what people have whispered me or whatnot and considering I haven't played DotA in well over a month or two now, please think of using WC3banlist in conjunction with D2:LOD a moot topic sort of open for discussion.

NeedsMoreGoat, on Sep 15 2008, 10:01 AM, said:

why is zonfire allowed then?

proly single player only

[AcidRane]

Zonfire only functions for SP, and thus is not against the battle.net TOU. In Open and SP, you're free to hack/mod all you want.

[NeedsMoreGoat]

AcidRane, on Sep 15 2008, 07:24 PM, said:

Zonfire only functions for SP, and thus is not against the battle.net TOU. In Open and SP, you're free to hack/mod all you want.

o ok thanks.

[illini2319]

are channel bots kosher then?

[Spence]

Uh oh. :(

[DragoonWraith]

Blizzard has specifically said that channel bots are ok as long as not used for spam, IIRC. Hmm, more of a gray area than I had thought, that's an excellent point.

[AcidRane]

illini2319, on Sep 17 2008, 12:42 PM, said:

are channel bots kosher then?

Blizzard specifically ruled that ALL 3rd party programs are banned with the one exception of channel bots, so until they rule the same on wc3banlist, the BB can't condone it's use.

This post has been edited by AcidRane: 17 September 2008 - 02:13 PM

[Bob_the_Evil]

Channel bots are not supported and may be not allowed though currently no action is being taken against them. Blizzard's statement on bots was in regards to the bots which connected via Telnet using the battle.net CHAT protocol.

[Fleeing Coward]

Just wondering, would a program like ForumTrader be allowed by this forum's rules? According to the creator it doesn't hack into the game's code or anything but I want to make sure that it's allowed here before I use it to manage all the items on my NL and L mules.

[DragoonWraith]

Assuming the author of the thread is trustworthy, then he's right, it does not hack into Diablo II at all. In reality, it's more-or-less identical to the program that I use to transfer button presses on my mouse to iTunes to Play/Pause, Skip, and Rewind songs - it monitors keystrokes (like a keylogger, as he mentioned). Because it does not touch Diablo II or Battle.net code in any way, it should not be detected by Warden or be in any way capable of "hacking" the game. Of course, this continues to assume that the programmer is trustworthy - but the program has apparently been vetted by diii.net, so I guess it comes down to whether or not they're trustworthy.

What he's claiming is that it monitors keystrokes, and at the appropriate moment it takes a screenshot and automatically crops it to just the item (based on the black background, I assume), if I understand correctly. Maybe it has some text-reading capability - Diablo II uses a consistent font so that would not be overly difficult. It then adds the item to a list. (EDIT: I did not understand correctly; it doesn't even do that - it just lets you type in the items while looking at D2, so you don't have to Alt+Tab. It also has a database and will automatically fill in non-variable mods and the like)

The Glide wrapper mentioned in his thread is apparently something Blizzard has commented on: they recognize that it is not a hack, but they do not guarantee that Warden will recognize it as harmless - so that's use at your own risk. Again, assuming we trust the guys at diii.net - I've never spent time there.

Finally, considering that several members consider ipconfig (a built-in Windows command) to be an illegal third-party program, well, I'm not sure what the ruling here will be.

This post has been edited by DragoonWraith: 25 September 2008 - 02:28 PM

[peterpaulrubens]

I've posted a reply in that thread asking to see the source code. We'll see what the author says.

I don't think there's any violation of the Bnet TOU in that program, but I certainly don't want to officially OK that program for BB users yet either.

@DW: it's not ipconfig, that tells you YOUR address. You're talking about netstat.

[DragoonWraith]

No, several members have referred to ipconfig as a TPP. ipconfig tells you what server of Battle.net you are connected to; if you knew what servers were "hot" (which you could not without being affiliated with the dupers involved in selling the SoJs or some kind of hack to get the number sold), that could be used to determine whether or not Dclone was going to spawn in that server. While I don't support either affiliation with dupers or hacks to get the number, ipconfig by itself, is not illegal.

EDIT: I am wrong, you are right. I have heard people refer to "ipconfig", but they meant netstat, as you said.

Regardless, netstat is also a built-in Windows command.

Also, I was basing my post on the explanation in the thread; turns out it doesn't even do as much as I thought it did. It simply lets you type in what items you have while in game, and maintains the list. So it doesn't actually do anything but check keystrokes, and display a little window. It has a database to help you type in the items quickly, filling in any non-variable stats automatically and the like. Mostly it saves alt-tabbing, though.

EDIT: Fullscreen version doesn't work for me at all. Maybe it would with Glide, but I'm considerably more hesitant to use that, considering Warden. It is pretty cool, though, and I've set up a shortcut to a .bat file to open it with Diablo in a window for the sake of developing a tradelist. Especially if people use Windowed mode anyway, I see little reason to avoid it. (EDIT2: PPR has a pretty good point about caution/trust; it's conceivable that the program is more malicious than is let on - depends on whether or not you've trusted diii.net)

Not sure how much the source code will help. I mean, if he was being dishonest, he could just cut out the "bad" part of the code and hand you the rest.

This post has been edited by DragoonWraith: 25 September 2008 - 02:26 PM

[peterpaulrubens]

DragoonWraith, on Sep 25 2008, 10:03 AM, said:

Not sure how much the source code will help. First, you have to assume that he's giving you the actual source code. Then you'd have to go through it - I'm not gonna do that. That's a pretty tall order, methinks.

I somehow doubt he'll give it to me, but I'd take a look at it. I'd be mostly concerned about it being an actual keylogger and sending the logged data out somehow. Things to look for would be any code that sends email, makes a network connection, sends IRC messages, etc. This type of program would be really easy to scam people's passwords with.

I'm basically really suspicious of anyone who would make a free program for the community but won't release the source code. When I do consulting for companies I keep my source closed because I'm requiring people to PAY me for my programs (unless providing the source code is part of what they're buying). When I work on things I'm not expecting to be paid for I see no reason to not release the source code too... unless your code is doing something nefarious.

[DragoonWraith]

I see what you mean. Fair enough. I also read your post, and didn't realize you were a VB programmer. That would make it relatively easy to check for key-logging.

Considering that it apparently gets significant use on those boards, key-logging doesn't seem that likely; at the very least he's not using the passwords to steal all their stuff. Or maybe he's waiting :ninja:

This post has been edited by DragoonWraith: 25 September 2008 - 12:29 PM